Re: [pf] Nader on The Connection today (NPR)

by Jill Taylor Bussiere

19 December 2000 01:57 UTC

To add to Molly's notes:

John Nichols, the page editor for the Capitol Times editorials (have I got
that right, Don?) said that Democrats can change, but that they are like a
person who is really sick and needs to go to the doctor - that in order to
get better, the Democrats must break away from the Democratic Leadership
Council - this is the group that strategized the move to center in order to
get the presidency.  Mr. Nichols also talked about how the status quo can
not be challenged in the primaries - that the primaries are closed, and
candidates chosen way before election time.  He said that Bradley wasn't
different from Gore anyway.  John Nichols wrote a piece for The Nation 2
years ago noting that Gore would be the the candidate of the Democratic
Party.  The same was true for Bush - he had been chosen long before.  He
noted that Democrats are too weak to get campaign finance reform - even the
watered down reform of the McCain Feingold bill.

Rick Hurtzburg (sp?) of The New Yorker said that Gore voters are very angry,
and that the Nader candidacy was a destructive step - which destroyed the
village.  That Nader is full of willfulness and petulance.  That he liked
the part of the Green Party platform that talked about PR and instant
run-off voting, but that a Ralph Nader shouldn't have run until there is
such a thing in place.

At this point, Elena, Merritt and I all chimed in on the same point - that
the reason that PR and instant run-off voting are so frequently discussed is
because of the Nader candidacy and the Green Platform.  Really, this is a
run-around.  Can't run until the system is changed, can't change the system
without running.......

Nader said he ran because of:
    collapsing democracy - in the gov't, elections, workplace, autocratic
trade agreements, poverty, lack of public transit, environmental
degradation, and wealth in the hands of a few.

Nichols said that unless there is a militant commitment of Dems. to the
Nader points, then Bush will have a successful presidency, and that people
will say, "You know, Bush didn't come in with any mandate, and yet he really
pulled it together...."

Nader pushed Rick Hurtzburg on the point of the debate commission - asking
him if he would favor an impartial one.  Mr. Hurtzburg did not want to
answer, and tried to avoid it, but Ralph pressed him, and finally he agreed,
saying "who wouldn't be in favor of it".

                            Jill, who may well have heard in a biased sort
of way as Ralph is one of my main heroes - so read the above information
accordingly.....


----- Original Message -----
From: Molly Williams <mmw@waveinter.com>
To: <bbarnum@wavetech.net>
Cc: Positive Futures Listserv <positive-futures@igc.topica.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [pf] Nader on The Connection today (NPR)


> Betsy,
>
> The pro-Nader forces addressed every one of your responses -- the math
> (why Gore lost), Gore's loss of his home state and others where Nader
> was not a deciding factor, similiarities between Dems and Republicans,
> etc.
>
> But the callers /were/ the rank-and-file -- And they were mad -- Mad
> enough to call into this talk show. One woman was furious bec. she
> thought Nader brushed off concerns about Bush putting judges on the S.C.
> who would decrease women's access to reproductive choice. She has a
> 12-yr-old daughter whose future reprod. rights she's concerned about.
> Her point was "how dare" Nader say that the differences between Dems and
> Repubs aren't significant. Nader went through about 6 points as to why
> he doesn't consider it likely that Roe v. Wade will be overturned or
> diminished (and why he didn't think so during the campaign) and why
> birth control will always be available.
>
> Other Dem callers (just plain old people, as far as I know, with no
> party ranking) said that only middle- and upper-class liberal whites
> could afford to "waste their vote" for Nader, because blacks, the poor,
> women, etc., couldn't afford to, based on what they stood to lose. Those
> folks would rather vote for Gore and a likely $.50 or $.75 increase in
> min. wage than Nader and the unfulfilled promise of a $10 min. wage.
>
> (Nader told him, among other things, that his best showing was with
> people whose annual incomes are $15K or under.)
>
> And so on.
>
> I would like to believe, Betsy, that it is just the "party hacks" who
> are ranting on about Nader. But in my own experience, it's the
> rank-and-file who are still really angry about Nader. In my town,
> long-time Democratic liberals are furious at people like me who voted
> for Nader -- even though Maine was fairly easily won by Gore. For them,
> it's the principle of it, that someone would choose to try to affect
> change  in the system from outside the Dem party rather than from within
> it; that someone would risk a Bush presidency for a loser like Nader, as
> I've had it put to me; that someone would "ignore" all that Clinton and
> Gore have done for the U.S. during the past 8 years -- a friend's
> husband went on for 6-8 paragraphs detailing every positive thing about
> the C-G administration and what it meant tangibly for his family. (I
> wish I had copied parts of that message and asked for responses here
> before I deleted it!)
>
> I had a Vote Nader bumper sticker on my car in 1996 but I never got
> around to getting one this year and I am a little glad. I would
> seriously worry for my car's cosmetic health if I had one on there now.
> I know that's cowardly; but the letters to the editor in the Portland
> (ME) paper -- from regular people (or at least, they claim no official
> party association) -- and the private e-mails and comments I have
> received from people I thought I had a lot in common with convince me
> that there is a lot of anger among regular Democrats about Gore's loss
> and a lot of blame of the loss on Nader.
>
> ~ Molly
>
>
>
>
> Betsy Barnum wrote:
> >
> > Molly Williams wrote:
> >
> > > The premise of today's program, titled "The Nader Effect," was that
> > > Ralph Nader caused Geo. W. Bush to be elected. Many Dems (callers and
> > > the guest speaker) were quite angry about his effect on the election,
> > > calling Nader all kinds of names and saying he should be ashamed of
> > > himself. Those who spoke on Nader's behalf (including Nader, of
course)
> > > were eloquent in response, I thought.
> > >
> > > Wondered what others thought.
> >
> > I didn't hear the program, but I think people who still blame Nader for
> > Gore not being president need to get a life. First off, we all know that
in
> > spite of the Supremes' incredibly partisan intervention, Gore actually
did
> > win! They certainly can't blame Nader for how the judges decided!
Second,
> > we also know that Gore lost more votes to Bush nationwide, and in
Florida
> > as well, than he did to Nader. It's just silly and stupid for people to
> > continue haranguing about Nader and the Greens. They should instead be
> > asking why Gore couldn't carry his own home state nor Clinton's, and
doing
> > some self-examination about why so many people perceive very little
> > difference between the two major parties. As well as asking why so many
> > people, still the majority and most of them the Democrats' traditional
> > constituency, don't vote at all.
> >
> > IMHO, it's mostly party hacks who are still carrying the grudge about
> > Nader. The rank and file Democrats are over it.
> >
> > Betsy
> >
> > --
> > Betsy Barnum
> > bbarnum@wavetech.net
> > http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1624
> >
> > **************************************
> > The Constitution was designed to ensure that the majority of
> > citizens (without property) would not have a real voice in
> > political affairs and it is no coincidence that that is the case
> > today. And the Constitution was designed to ensure that real
> > political power in this country would always be held by the
> > handful of very large property owners and it is no coincidence
> > that that is the case today.
> >
> > --Jerry Fresia, Toward An American Revolution