Health and Diet Scottish Recipes Ferret for Ferrets


[pf] Knowing that you know (was Christianity)
by Kaleopono
28 November 2000 21:09 UTC

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Molly and David A concluded their exchange:

> > But Molly, isn't belief only relevant when we can't prove that something
> > exists? If we could prove it, it'd be a fact. We don't say we "believe"
> > that water can exist in three different states, ice, liquid, and steam,
> > we have determined its truth and so we say we "know" it. Belief can
> > certainly be embracing the mystery, but faith is only necessary because
> > we have not been able to prove that God exists. Indeed, that's why it
> > was invented.
> >
> > If God were a fact, would the mystery disappear?
>
> But David :-), Tom (my husband) is a fact and he's a mystery. For that
> matter (so to speak), water is a fact and I see it as mysterious as well
> -- that's one of its appeals for me. A thing can be known to exist and
> still be a mystery.
>
> I don't want to argue philosophy or religion with you (or anyone else).
> I don't believe spirit or deep wisdom or the soul, or whatever you want
> to call it, is amendable to words and logic. Matter and spirit exist
> differently and require different languages, just as science and art do.
> That's my experience, anyway.


Using the image of bicycle riding that I used in my previous post, once one
has learnt and moved into the expert or advanced mode of being in which "the
bicycle rides itself", there is no need for proof that the riding is
possible.  Testing, trial and error, the search for proof is a feature of
movement along the road from the novice to the expert stage.  When one has
attained, when one is functioning expertly, then one simply KNOWS that one
knows.  There is a _certitude_ beyond doubt, proof or disproof.  In the
framework of Zen one might refer to the matter's "isness".

A tip of my hat to you, Molly.   ; - )

Kaleopono